Some seems to prefer to minister to only other believers and have very little to say to unbelievers.
They are quick to judge and tell them where they are going but don't offer them the only way of escape. The Gospel.
In John 17:20 we see Jesus praying for our ministering to them.
"Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
I once copied an article on Evangelism. Here's how it reads.
Part 1.
To evangelize means to share the gospel of Jesus Christ with someone else. Personal evangelism should be the lifestyle of every true Christian. We've been given a great gift, and our Master left us with clear instructions: "Go into all the world and make disciples of every nation" Matthew 28:19. Before we can "make disciples," we must evangelize. There are other reasons, besides Jesus' command, that should also motivate us to share the greatest news in the world with people who haven't heard it:
Evangelism is an act of love. Love must be the defining characteristic of every follower of Jesus Christ John 13:35; 1 Corinthians 13:1-7. It is a fruit of the Holy Spirit, so anyone who walks in the Spirit will demonstrate love in dealing with people Galatians 5:16, 22-23. We possess the best news in the world, and love propels us to share it with those who haven't heard. Love wants everyone to have a chance to respond to God's offer of salvation. Withholding news that could save someone's life is the utmost cruelty; therefore, those who truly love God will love the people whom Jesus came to save John 3:16-18; 1 John 4:20.
Evangelism builds our own faith. Nothing helps us learn a subject like teaching it to someone else. When we make a practice of sharing our faith with those in our lives, we strengthen our own beliefs. Regular evangelism forces us to wrestle through the hard questions, find answers for ourselves, and prepare to respond to the questions of others.
Thanks, brother, I did not intend to combine salvation issue and eschatology. I was just referring to it being an innate human nature to follow a crowd and taking the path of least resistance. I did not mean to base any truth on the majority or minority. I agree we can apply Matthew 7:13 with salvation but we can also apply it to what is being taught as in verse 15 is a warning of false prophets. This includes false teaching that is attractive and the larger the crowd the easier it is to deceive people.
I agree we should put Scripture above all that is taught out there for in them is the only truth, but many people do not, they just go with what they hear from a preacher, TV, YouTube, etc. Some never open a Bible and study and pray, asking God for the truth and the larger the follower's impact what they believe is the truth.
We can be deceived if we do not try the spirits, 1 John 4:1 that only comes from prayer and study being guided by the Holy Spirit. Hope this makes sense, we have discussed this before and this is not to debate we both know each other's understanding and I am not asking you but honestly, I have not found or have been shown one verse that out-and-out says we go or are taken to heaven that some teach.
I must disagree, I am not Amillennialism, I do not spiritualize Scripture, I believe in a literal 1000-year reign of Jesus with His chosen and faithful at His second coming, Revelation 5:10Revelation 20:4-6. Also, I do not believe the Church has replaced Israel. We are probably closer in our understanding of the end times than you think.
Hope you had a good vacation I guess you are on the road again.
We are to be at peace with one another, forgive one another, have mercy on one another.
Just a few references.
1 Thessalonians 4:9
Ephesians 4:32
Galatians 5:26
Galatians 6:2
Matthew 7:12
1 John 4:7
However, we don't lie or deceive one another for the sake of peace. The truth hurts sometimes but it promotes spiritual growth providing that the Christ spirit is in the person.
BELEIVERS SHUNNING OTHER BELEIVERS.
To shun is to deliberately avoid something or someone. In the Bible, the word shun is applied to evil. Job 1:8, Job 28:28, Proverbs 3:7-8Proverbs 14:16. So, shunning evil is good.
There is scripture that promotes excommunication. Matthew 18:15-17; 2 Thessalonians 3:14. but do we do it for harm or Good? What's the intent?
In any case, it would seem that extreme forms of shunning, such as considering someone "dead," utterly ignoring him, or refusing to acknowledge his existence, go beyond what Scripture commands.
After all, Jesus said that, when someone is put out of the church, he should be treated as "a pagan or a tax collector" Matthew 18:17. In other words, treat an intractable offender as an unsaved person.
How are we to treat the unsaved? With love and grace.
The "pagans and tax collectors" need to be evangelized. We are to love even our enemies ( Matthew 5:44).
The goal of excommunication and any form of shunning is restoration ( Galatians 6:1).
The purpose of any type of discipline is to prompt repentance and, ultimately, to reunite our fallen brother or sister with the church body. Being officially ostracized from the church, the sinner might be brought to repentance.
When the man in the Corinthian church later realized that he had sinned against God, he repented and came back to the church for forgiveness and reinstatement. Fellowship with the Corinthian believers was restored ( 2 Corinthians 2:6-11).
Isn't it hateful to ignore or shun other believers?
I suppose today's scripture from Joshua 24:18 is as good a place as any to tackle that subject. As for the entire Bible as we have it today; there is no verse in scripture mentioning all the written texts as a whole; probably because they weren't complete yet.
1 Corinthians 13:10 mentions things passing away when the partial is complete; or something to that affect. Revelation also has verses warning about not adding or subtracting which could mean adding to that book or all scripture. Since the written texts originally came from oratory (with the exception of the 10 Commandments originally penned by God Himself); God planned it out so that the scribes would count every LETTER of a scroll; and get rid of a copy to start again if it was even slightly off. 2 Timothy 3:16 explains that all scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching; reproof; etc.
I have discussed in older posts a summation of the Apocrypha as to truths of historic or moral truths that are borrowed from true scripture; which always states "thus saith the Lord" except for places like Ruth and Esther; or Song of Solomon. God's truths are absolute; as we see from the claims of Christ's divinity; and the laws in the 10 Commandments. The repetitive themes such as scriptures being repeated again in the New Testament to enhance their true meanings bring a cohesiveness to the Bible. We also have such admonitions as 1 John 4:2 stating what any "spirit" testifies about Christ having come in the flesh.
That would correlate with verses like Matthew 16:17 where it is clear that Christ's DIVINITY (as the "I am") can only be understood or revealed through the Spirit. I noticed that myself pre conversion it didn't enter my mind that Christ was God or part of the "Godhead". As our spirit testifies with "his Spirit"( Romans 8:16) that we are His children and His Word is truth the Lord will build our discernment of truth as we grow and mature in Him to know what is true (see also John 10:27).
1 John 4:20 is a stern admonition to those who would claim to love God that hates His brother. Other verses in 1 John show as with the Gospel of John the necessary commands for a believer to love one another. We need to look as well at verses in James which discuss the taming of the tongue. ( James 3:5-6) Gossip and slander are things that can destroy a person; hence the admonition about the fires of hell. You can bet that there will be plenty of cursing in hell for the state of misery against God and probably against others as well. Hating a brother without cause ( Matt. 5:22) is in degrees; but unforgiveness results in holding on to our own sins and is not beneficial for us even in this life. Holding onto grudges; for example is another example of a lifestyle of sin; there are people who may have already passed away who we still have bitterness about in our souls resulting in caustic behavior toward others including unforgiveness. Man cannot have unconditional love for their enemies apart from His grace. This of course doesn't validate the "political correctness" today coddling criminal behavior. Acts 2:23 is only one of several passages in the book clearly stating that the Jews killed Christ; and or complicit in His murder. Jesus didn't mince words either with this subject ( Matthew 5:21-22).
We cannot ignore the act of murder which includes abortions in this study either. Again; we dare not cede to the culture of today which doesn't want to follow Biblical precedent for a death penalty for such an act to vindicate an innocent party and to have some cohesiveness in society. We can complain all we want about dictatorships in the world; but many of them see much lower crime rates because no government can survive in anarchy. We also are foolish in trying to support ideologies that are antithetical toward the value of life because of some misguided notion that everyone wants a "democracy".
Hello, I would like to offer comfort through the Word in the Book Of John 10:10. I Do Believe it Is up to us individually to help Jesus Christ speak into our existence For He Is 1 John 4:2, even our flesh, He Is the Spirit which Gives us Aspiration every day, and as we Speak, It should Be Likened To the Words printed in red Spoken by Our Lord. The words we use daily, should be used in careful consideration to Be Positive, albeit our bodies feel otherwise. It may take time to notice effectual change in health, I Do Believe It Will Be Done, God's Will, not mine. Which I am not saying I do not pray for your health, I Am saying I as a person cannot accomplish health, God's Will that we Be Healthy, In His Name. Following The Golden Rule I have learned recently Is in our favor as well, it is about Speaking, so Be it positive speech we can receive of Our Lord positivity in our life. Drink as much water as able, for our bodies are of soil, all our seeds planted (Good thoughts, deeds, dialogs) Will grow Healthily same as watering gardens. I pray this helps you grow healthy In Spirit, Mind and Body.
Scripture is clear Jesus had no sin, Hebrews 4:151 Peter 2:221 John 3:5Romans 5:12-15.
Do you believe that the Father and the Son are one as Jesus said in Jn. 17 or that He and the Father are "in" one another and if they see Jesus, they see the Father?
Both, Jesus said I and my Father are one John 10:30 and in other places, one means unity. Jesus was one with the Father not because Jesus was God but because He was filled with the Spirit and God dwelt in him, John 14:10, as we see God was in Christ 2 Corinthians 5:19
God dwelt in Jesus and empowered Him by His Spirit that gave Jesus the power and authority like Matthew 11:27 All things are delivered to Jesus of His Father, Jesus did not have it, all was given to Him. God was manifest in Jesus, John 12:49John 14:10. This is why Jesus said if you have seen me, you have seen the Father, John 14:9.
Jesus in His prayer asked the Father that we may be one, as He and His Father are one through the words of the disciples, John 17:20-23. God and Jesus will dwell in us and we in them, 1 John 4:13-16 1 John 3:23-24.
How is it that Jesus AND the Father send the Holy Spirit if there is only one person as God?
Jesus said He would pray to the Father to give another comforter, John 14:16, we see in John 14:26 the Father will send in Jesus's name. In John 15:26 Jesus said I will send but this is from the Father and the Spirit of truth that proceedeth from the Father. This is not a person it is the Spirit of God.
Please don't take this wrong, in the Trinity there is one God who eternally exists as three distinct Persons: The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, each Person is fully God, coequal, coeternal, and consubstantial. I'm sorry my understanding, is Scripture does not support that, Scripture is clear the Father is above all.
Thank you, GiGi, I hope this is what you wanted I am not the best at this.
Do you believe that the will of the Father and the will of the Son are always the same or different?
Jesus was obedient to the Father, Jesus said many times it is not His will but the will of the Father who sent Him, the same as we are to do, John 4:34John 5:30Mark 3:35.
Do you believe that a human being can truly save all men from sin and death by a perfect life in their own will?
First, I will have to say it was the will of the Father, Jesus at the end even asked His father if there was another way but not Jesus's will but the will of His Father, Matthew 26:39Luke 22:42. We are told this is the foundation of our faith, Jesus' sacrificial death. God cannot die God is Spirit He has no blood to shed for sin it had to be a man, His Son, born of a woman.
John 3:16 God gave His Son not Himself 1 John 2:221 John 4:32 John 1:7Romans 5:82 Corinthians 5:21, God cannot be made sin, 1 Corinthians 15:17 Jesus died, and God raised Him from the dead, the first man to live a perfect life, the first fruits of those who sleep in death. 1 Corinthians 15:14 as said if Jesus was not a man who lived a perfect life and died and was raised from the dead all is vain.
The first Adam was the first man Jesus was the last Adam and the second man, 1 Corinthians 15:45-47. 1 Corinthians 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. The law had to be fulfilled by a man.
How would a human being know that they are the Messiah from birth and thus know not to ever sin?
As we see Luke 2:51-52 Jesus grew up increasing in wisdom and stature in favor with God and man. Jesus was twelve years old and He knew His father was God, but it doesn't say Jesus knew then He was to be the Messiah. God also said He would raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, Deuteronomy 18:15, Isaiah 11:1-5Isaiah 61:1-2 confirmed in Luke 4:18-21. Romans 1:1-42 Timothy 2:8.
No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us. HEREBY KNOW WE THAT WE DWELL IN HIM, AND HE IN US, because he hath given us of his Spirit.
And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
What John is saying is that no man has seen God at any time but if we love one another God dwells in us. In other words God today can manifest himself through believers in loving one another, "and the world sees That!
John 13:34-35, "A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
"What makes this so unique?" What's new about it? Isn't it listed in the Commandments? What's unique and new about it is that he causes it!
Look at verse 35.
"By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
John 3:16
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son,.
( God gave us his Spirit that causes us to love the Brothern.)
God's Spirit, "The Holyspirit" causes those who loves God to love his brother also. 1 John 4:21"
Romans 5:5.
And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
Then to your question, "If Jesus was a co-equal God in the three-person God, how could He be given anything He would already have it?" If we don't believe that Jesus came out from God's Person, then your question is valid. But if He did, then to become Man, taking on 'sinful flesh', He would have had to lay aside God's Glory & other Divine Attributes ( Philippians 2:5-8), so that He could be fully Man, to identify completely with those He would save & be their sin-bearer - for God in His Being cannot suffer & die as appointed unto men.
Thus when we read 1 John 4:2,3; we know that John is not speaking of an historical Jesus, for all knew of (or heard of) this One named Jesus of Nazareth Who lived & walked on Earth doing great things. But those who denied that this Christ from God had been brought down to Earth to be made flesh, were deemed by the apostle as not speaking by God's Spirit (& this is that Docetic heresy that was pervading the Church: that Divinity & Flesh cannot unite, so the incarnation is incredible). So dear brother, I can see your interpretation of such verses & was exercised by them to understand them the way you do, but for me to read them in that manner would cause me to violate my comprehension abilities & sensibilities.
Therefore, I think it best we leave off here, as much as I would like to continue, for I see no useful progress to be made when we read the Word so differently. Thank you again for your time & persisting in this - I do appreciate this very much. Every blessing.
I was sorry to read Momsage, about your suffering, in dealing with a disability & severe exhaustion, and this can indeed make one lethargic (the spirit being willing, though the flesh weak) in doing what we would earnestly like to get done. But you have found some relief now & hopefully by just resting your spirit & body in the Lord & in His Word, you will gain precious ongoing refreshment from His Spirit.
This Docetic position stems from a belief that 'Deity cannot unite with flesh', but it doesn't mean that Scriptures aren't used to prove their belief, but with that foundation, their mental capabilities are engaged to re-visit Scriptures with alternative viewpoints. But there would be those who have from young age been taught that the incarnation is impossible (as you would know how RCs are indoctrinated from an early age in other matters, viz. Mary, saints, indulgences, penances, the Mass, etc.); or others by their own research from books, the Web, etc., where they can find a 'better' logic to this mystery, than just accepting what the Word states.
Thus we have the apostolic epistles, which essentially are pastoral letters directed to Churches for teaching, encouragement, dealing with problems/matters arising, & refuting the teaching of others that were contrary to what they had been taught. I always go back to 1 John in this 'docetic' regard, as Gnosticsm was rife then & John had to deal with it (see 1 John 1:1,2; 1 John 2:18 (the anti-Christ spirit, cf 1 John 4:2,3); 1 John 2:22,23). GBU.
Good to hear from you, very good question. First, the Roman Church elevated Mary to the queen of heaven the same title as Tammuz's mother we see Israel worshiping. They say she ascended to heaven and much more. If we look at Acts we see Paul said that David is still in his tomb and has not ascended to heaven, Acts 2:29 and Acts 2:34. Many believe after Jesus was resurrected saints were also resurrected and are in heaven and many pray to them. My understanding is no one has been resurrected all are in the grave asleep in death.
When God through His Spirit the Holy Spirit raised Jesus from the dead He placed Jesus above all that is in heaven, on earth, and under the earth, Philippians 2:9-11. God placed Jesus on His right hand on the throne of God, therefore giving Jesus the power of the throne.
John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. Jesus also said John 16:23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.
God the Father and Jesus will dwell in us by the Spirit, not in temples made by hands like Jesus said in John 4:21-23 and we see in 1 Corinthians 3:16. We see in 1 John 4:12-16 it is by the Spirit that Jesus who is sitting on the right side of God on the throne of God as the only mediator between us and God has been given the power of the throne until all enemies are under His feet, 1 Corinthians 15:27-28.
My humble understanding it is by the Spirit of God/Holy Spirit that Jesus can see and hear all. Jesus is the only begotten Son of God and His God is our God the Father as Jesus said to Mary John 20:17.
The Spirit uses the word continual in keeping with the Holiness in which both Power and Wisdom are at play. He sent forth his word that shall never return void. (Is.55:11) So continual is firmly is the order of the Father Son relationship. "My Father worketh hitherto, and I work," has events unseen as well as made to appear that owe to this continual action.
Consequently the Abstract presented in the Book of Genesis Ch. 1 refers to the Everlasting Covenant, which is unseen. Whereas the Abstract like 7 bullet points- and the Spirit calls them as day, refers to the generation of Jesus Christ. Why call it day? In Ps.2:7 God refers it as such, and "This day I have begotten thee," is part of the decree so it stands. The generation of Jesus Christ begins with the day as set down by the Spirit. "These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens."(Ge.2:4)
"In the beginning" refers to this day (Ge.1:1). Compare this with the verse where new heaven and the new earth are presented (Re.21:1), the adjective 'new' is the culmination of the continual action to which both heaven and the earth play their parts set forth in the Abstract.
The Spirit uses the word 'continual' in another sense. The devil sins from the beginning, which also have consequences till the day of Regeneration. 'He that is in you is greater than he that is in the world.'( 1 John 4:4,18) His works are however subject to God purging from time to time. ( 1 John 3:8). Perfect love casts out fear.
Fear not according to a site online (I won't name it in case that is an issue) is listed 365 times in the Bible. I am aware of the message of the angels about Christ the Savior being born to the shepherds as the verse which Charles Schultz included in the famous Peanuts Christmas story when Linus dropped the security blanket as a symbolic gesture.
Of course Franklin Roosevelt gave the quote "the only thing we have to fear is fear itself." That is true to some extent; because the enemy of our souls can only do what God allows; but of course the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom; which is found in numerous scriptural passages as well. It has been said that the opposite of fear is faith; and of course true love casts out fear ( 1 John 4:18). This is something only the Lord can give; for Jesus Himself had martyrdom to face daily; and Revelation 2:10 is one example given for the church; as well as the verse where Christ said to not fear what can be done to the body but the one who can cast body and soul into hell. ( Matthew 10:28). The enemy also likes to remind us as the accuser of the brethern of our sins and our condemnation which Christ took at the cross for true believers. (see Revelation 12:10). The Lord will convict us when we grieve the Spirit but that is out of love. The power of sin is death ( 1 Cor. 15:56). Jesus overcame death and the grave and took our sins on Himself at Calvary. We need to be daily reminded of these basic Gospel truths as we can become hardened to it for various reasons.
There is hope for us after death and hope is for things yet unseen ( Hebrews 11:1). Surely with the world in the state it is today we need that future expectation for any joy to be maintained; whether emotionally or as a fruit of the Spirit. Being part of the BODY of Christ is imperitive as to our identity so that we may together strive for unity in fulfilling the Great Commission and prayer and fellowship with one another for strength.
A question we should ask ourselves; Do we study it with a confirmation bias? I know I have in the past and I must fight it every time I open the Bible. It is part of our subconscious mind; confirmation bias is when we study the Bible, we look for verses to confirm our existing beliefs, without even knowing it we ignore any Bible verses that conflict with what we believe.
Our existing beliefs are deeply entrenched in our subconscious mind, and our subconscious mind blocks the true meaning unless we accept that we may be wrong and in prayer make a sincere effort to come to the Scriptures with an open mind as we know nothing, praying for the truth with open ears, that we may hear.
Like stories we have heard from childhood, only two, a male and a female of each animal and bird went into the ark with Noah, or the wise men went to the manger when Jesus was a baby. Is that the truth? We must not automatically defend our beliefs without ever really questioning them, if not, the truth becomes harder to find.
1 John 4:1, we are told to test the spirits and many other Scriptures tell us to be aware of false prophets, and false teachers, 2 Corinthians 11:13-15. It is easy to start with a doctrine, or something we have been taught, or what we believe to find Scripture that will confirm it, but is that the true meaning that God inspired the writer to write?
I read and study the KJV, but we must be honest it is a translation and if something feels wrong in our heart, we must not ignore it. Whatever version we have we must trust it is the word of God and His Spirit will give us the understanding of it and shine light on the truth, not from our mind.
We can study in two ways, exegesis, considering the context, and God's intent, and open to the truth given to us through the Holy Spirit, or eisegesis by reading into it with one's own presuppositions, ideas, or the traditions of man.
I had an interesting discussion with a friend of mine who is a young Pastor last week. In it; he was lamenting an individual who claimed that Christ died for him (or her). This was because the evidence of it through this person's behavior would indicate otherwise. It is indeed true and necessary that we all have a personal understanding and experience in regard to salvific faith and repentance granted in regard to being one of God's elect if indeed we are saved. Clearly "accepting" Christ as Lord isn't really doing anything beyond what demons do and shudder ( James 2:19). Confession with the mouth and belief in the heart must coexist ( Romans 10:9-10); it is more than just a verbal declaration of facts. Nonetheless there should be some understanding of the atonement; as well as evidence that the heart has been changed with the spirit convicting of sin; righteousness and judgment to come ( John 16:8). As the Lord states "out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh" ( Matt. 12:34 and other related verses in New and Old Testament). What John 3:16 is indicating is a state of belief; not merely a one time thing (as translated correctly). Enduring to the end shows that it isn't our own strength which brings about this result; since we all struggle with sin as long as we live ( 1 John 1:8). Nonetheless we have the capacity to live a life of Holiness; since greater is He within us than he who is in the world ( 1 John 4:4).
There are variations of strengths and weaknesses that we all have; some are steeped in doctrines but rather cold in affection towards God; others seem to be caught up in experiences at the expense of wisdom from the Word; and often they seem to have little grasp of repentance or deem it not worthy in very much discussion. There is ample substance in the Word for the Spirit to enlighten us; and any personal vision or dream must be subject to the Word; if in variance then it must be discarded.
Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old.
The twelve disciples by the Power of the Spirit were equipped so their tongue was as that of learned. Jesus had assured them, "For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you." (10:20). Isaiah says, "The Lord GOD hath given me the tongue of the learned, that I should know how to speak a word in season tohim that isweary: he wakeneth morning by morning, he wakeneth mine ear to hear as the learned."(Is.50:4) They were his associates brought into the household of God.
Their names were written in heaven before the worlds began; so are the names of all those who were adopted as co-heirs to which the writer to the Hebrews address thus "But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,/To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect"(He.12:22-23)
"which bringeth out of his treasure"
Heart of every scribe is the treasure awaiting him and connects his physical life to the very presence of God. It is hidden, and the route map is the Scripture. "Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path (Ps.119:105). It is for this reason the Spirit has in many places compared the word of God to a lamp without which he cannot get his bearings or know what he is getting at. On the way he shall find many who make claim to know all the answers and do great wonders. It is impressive because the spirit that helps them is from some other source. How shall you know? "Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.( 1 John 4:4)".
Wow! The situation with your friend is so sad and so serious. :( Your friend, even if she is imagining the ghost, doesn't realize that the devil has her held captive by this evil idea and, what can you expect from believing in such a terrible doctrine. I'll pray for her and you for this situation. Knowing what to do is concerning. Do you think she would be willing to listen to your advise and the bible as to how God sees this thing. If God is so against it perhaps she would realize it isn't her mother but a servant of the devil trying to deceive her with a false sense of security, deceiving her into false beliefs. Perhaps if you can help her to realize and accept that God is saying, through His true word, that her mother has passed on and is not there with her then she might give up on this idea. References that might help you: 1 Timothy 4:1 - Leviticus 19:31 - 1 Chronicles 10:13-14 - 1 John 4:1.
I know a lot of people believe their loved ones are watching them from heaven, even Christians. I have always wondered if they have ever thought that through to a conclusion. Why God would allow such a thing when heaven is a place of peace and joy, why let people look down on this cursed world after they have gone to be with Him and are in His wonderful Prescence. I suppose they think their loved ones would want to do that but that doesn't make any sense either. Do they think Jesus isn't enough for the ones they've left behind to be there for them? Do they think the loved one is actually able to touch them with a sense of comfort somehow and to desire that instead looking to Jesus for their comfort? To look to someone else, a dead person instead of Jesus, for help from above is idolatry. Even worldly people believe this, like their deceased loved ones automatically went to heaven and since religious people accept it they do too. I hope this has been a little bit of help to you and, again I will be in prayer for you and her. :) God Bless
Yes Hadassah, I believe that folk today who don't have English as their primary language/mother tongue, have no other option than to use the translation undertaken for their language. This maybe from Bible Societies or Bible translators, and I strongly suspect that these folk won't be using the KJB or another version taken from the Textus Receptus, rather from a more modern translation that would also make their job a lot easier.
A case in point, that I've shared here before: when ministering in Pakistan back in the late 80's, I was giving a Bible study to a small Church group & 1 John 4:10, "Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins" was one of many references that was given. I had to use a Urdu translator (a brother in Christ) for this study, since my Urdu proficiency is woefully inadequate, & I had checked with him on some of our more 'difficult' biblical English words, e.g. 'propitiation'. He told me that in Urdu it is 'kafara' which in English is 'atonement'. But when I asked if 'kafara' could mean anything else to him (as we understand it in English), he replied, 'no other meaning at all'; they had no word in Urdu for 'propitiation', which meant that the translators made no effort to maybe give the proper meaning as a footnote, for example.
So Christians in Pakistan & parts of N. India actually miss out on receiving the full Truth & value of verses such as 1 John 4:10, thinking that the Gift of God's Son had atonement as its only message - they had no idea, because of a bad translation, that Jesus not only died for mankind's sins, but that He also bore the Wrath of God upon Himself that was actually destined for us. That by believing on Jesus, both our sins have been forgiven & God's Anger has been averted. Now not only lacking in Urdu, but I wonder how many other foreign language translations are denying Christians the full & accurate Words of God given for them.
You gave your understanding that in Hebrews 2:17-18Hebrews 14:21 John 4:2-3 to mean that Jesus was a living soul like you and me except He was anointed without measure with the Spirit of God?
Ronald, I don't hold the view that Jesus was a living soul.
Jesus wasn't born of Adam. He was of the seed of the woman! (That is very different and have meaning of specially done! Something I want have time to get into at the moment. Perhaps others would.
You mentioned Hebrews 2:17-18, Hebrews 2:14 and 1 John 4:2-3. Those scriptures say the Jesus came in the flesh.
Yes, he did!
1 Timothy 3:16 tells us who came in the flesh and where he returned.
"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
He came to condemn sin in the flesh as our Kinsman redeemer, something only he could do, "being of the seed of the woman" and not of Adam.
These are my beliefs Ronald.
I will speak on the kinsman Redeemer when time permits.
If I may ask, not to debate but just for my study and better understanding, Your reply to GiGi, It had to be the last Adam; A life-giving Spirit!! Not a living soul. This comes from 1 Corinthians 15, "the last Adam was made a quickening spirit". Forgive me if I misunderstood what you said (not a living soul).
I understand Jesus was made a quickening spirit when He was resurrected. What do you mean by not a living soul? My understanding is that in Hebrews 2:17-18Hebrews 14:21 John 4:2-3 would that not mean Jesus was a living soul like you and me except He was anointed without measure with the Spirit of God?
"But the importance is that everybody must settle it in their own hearts and minds about who Jesus is." So true. This has been discussed I think most know my understanding on this.
Was He just a great man? 1 Timothy 2:5Numbers 23:19 1 Hosea 11:19 Corinthians 15:21-22 Was He just a great teacher? John 3:2 Was He a great healer? Luke 4:18-19 Was He a prophet? Deuteronomy 18:18 Was He the brother of Satan? No, He is the only begotten Son, John 3:161 John 4:14. Was He Michael the archangel? No, Hebrews 1:5. Or was He God in the flesh? 1 Timothy 3:16 manifest, (make clear, make known) John 5:19. Did Peter give the right answer? Yes.
This doctrine was developed almost 400 years after Jesus's crucifixion, today in Christianity salvation is dependent on the belief in the Trinity doctrine. If that is true. Why is it not taught anywhere in the New Testament?
If Jesus is God why would God have to anoint Him with His Spirit? Did Jesus do the works and the miracles or did God the Father by His Spirit/Holy Spirit? Is salvation at the mercy of the belief in the Trinity doctrine? Did Jesus say the Father was His God? Could God fulfill the law that was made for man? Did God give Himself or His Son that we would not perish? If we say Jesus is God, do we deny the Son?
Jesus said this, John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
I understand in delays in replies many work and have family responsibilities. This subject is being discussed by several people and I just wanted to share a few points of my understanding on it. The questions were not directed towards you, you can reply to them if you want but they were some of the questions I wrote down when I was studying this subject because some Scriptures seem to support both understandings if not deeply studied, not saying you have not.
Scripture tells us God is love, 1 John 4:8,16 and we have been told God does not have pleasure in the death of the wicked, Ezekiel 33:11 caries us to John 3:16 God does not want us to perish. The Bible tells us the soul that sinneth will die, Ezekiel 18:4 God preserves the souls of the saints Psalms 97:10 the faith and belief in Jesus by the grace of God can save our soul Hebrews 10:39.
Scripture tells us of various degrees of punishment like in Luke 12:46-48Revelation 21:8. In Genesis 2:7 man became a living soul/being, my understanding is the breath of God is the spirit of life which goes back to God when we die whether lost or saved and this body becomes a dead soul that sleeps in the dust until resurrection then the judgment Revelation 20.
To repeat, eternal life is our promise it is something we do not have, only by faith and belief in Jesus Christ by the grace of God we will receive this gift when we are resurrected not before. If we say our souls are immortal, we are saying we already have eternal life, and it is just where are we going to spend it?
My understanding is the lost and wicked punishment is eternal forever, not the punishing, Satan and the fallen angels the beast and false profit will be tormented day and night for ever and ever as we see in Revelation 20:10, but they are not mortal beings like we are, and we see in Matthew 25:41 it was originally prepared for them.
We use Brothern to loosely today. Everyone amongst us is not a Brother or a Sister!
Look at the example Jesus gives in Matthew 12:47-50.
"Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren.
For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
Romans 12:3 says not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
We all have flaws and we're all of one body ministering by the same Spirit, having gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us by "THE GIFT" (Christ Spirit.) We are to exercise those gifts by the power of Christ Spirit.
We are to Love one another; I've declared that on this site since I've been on it using John 13:34-35 as a springboard.
Also, 1 John 4:20-21 and Matthew 7:15-16.
We shall be known by our fruit, not our gifts!
CAN YOU GENERATE THIS ON YOUR OWN?
Love amongst the brothern is not partial.
It's not determined by race, wealth, political parties, Gender, status in the church, or one's eschatology.
Love at its highest level is Agape. It's caused by the Holyspirit that knits us as one. It's to be totally given over to.
I've seen where one says he have the gift of discernment but yet he shuns other Brothern.
If you have an issue with a brother, you restore him. Galatians 6:1-4.
We must look out for each other. James 5:20 says, "Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins." Confrontation may be difficult, but it is not loving to allow a professing Christian to continue in a sin that will bring God's consequences upon him.
This statement about perfect love casting out fear follows Johns exposition on the amazing love of God for us manifested in sending His Son to suffer and die for our sins to set us free from the condemnation our sin deserves. And we can know that we have life in Jesus because of what He did for us. In verse 15 John speaks as Jesus did in the Luke passage, that any who confesses Jesus is the Son of God (which the Jewish leaders determined was blasphemy; that Jesus made Himself out to be God when He claimed to be the Son of God- Jn. 10:33) will be indwelt by the God and the person dwells in God. vs. 16.
verse 17 says that we can have boldness on the day of judgement. This is where our love is made perfect and we will have no fear of condemnation at that judgement. vs.18. Those who will fear at the judgement will be those who do not confess Jesus, who are in unbelief and do not have the indwelling of God nor do they abide in God, as believers do prior to the judgement.
On judgment day we will have boldness instead of fear like the unbelievers because the love of God has been shed abroad in our hearts through God's work of salvation, forgiveness of sins, and the imputed righteousness of Christ. We can stand before God on judgment day knowing we will enter into blessed eternity in the Presence of God without any fear or sense of disapproval from God. We will stand without blame because Jesus stood for us in our place to enable us to become sons of God, vessels of His mercy, not vessels of His wrath, as the unbelievers are.
So I think that both of these selections from Luke and 1 John are speaking about judgment day and how we who confess Jesus, even under threat of death by persecutors, will receive the crown of life, and victory, and acceptance by God who did not have to save us but chose to do so in the manifestation of His love for us in Christ.
I am interested in reading what others think on your concerns on this matter.
Evangelizing.
Some seems to prefer to minister to only other believers and have very little to say to unbelievers.
They are quick to judge and tell them where they are going but don't offer them the only way of escape. The Gospel.
In John 17:20 we see Jesus praying for our ministering to them.
"Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
I once copied an article on Evangelism. Here's how it reads.
Part 1.
To evangelize means to share the gospel of Jesus Christ with someone else. Personal evangelism should be the lifestyle of every true Christian. We've been given a great gift, and our Master left us with clear instructions: "Go into all the world and make disciples of every nation" Matthew 28:19. Before we can "make disciples," we must evangelize. There are other reasons, besides Jesus' command, that should also motivate us to share the greatest news in the world with people who haven't heard it:
Evangelism is an act of love. Love must be the defining characteristic of every follower of Jesus Christ John 13:35; 1 Corinthians 13:1-7. It is a fruit of the Holy Spirit, so anyone who walks in the Spirit will demonstrate love in dealing with people Galatians 5:16, 22-23. We possess the best news in the world, and love propels us to share it with those who haven't heard. Love wants everyone to have a chance to respond to God's offer of salvation. Withholding news that could save someone's life is the utmost cruelty; therefore, those who truly love God will love the people whom Jesus came to save John 3:16-18; 1 John 4:20.
Evangelism builds our own faith. Nothing helps us learn a subject like teaching it to someone else. When we make a practice of sharing our faith with those in our lives, we strengthen our own beliefs. Regular evangelism forces us to wrestle through the hard questions, find answers for ourselves, and prepare to respond to the questions of others.
See part 2.
Thanks, brother, I did not intend to combine salvation issue and eschatology. I was just referring to it being an innate human nature to follow a crowd and taking the path of least resistance. I did not mean to base any truth on the majority or minority. I agree we can apply Matthew 7:13 with salvation but we can also apply it to what is being taught as in verse 15 is a warning of false prophets. This includes false teaching that is attractive and the larger the crowd the easier it is to deceive people.
I agree we should put Scripture above all that is taught out there for in them is the only truth, but many people do not, they just go with what they hear from a preacher, TV, YouTube, etc. Some never open a Bible and study and pray, asking God for the truth and the larger the follower's impact what they believe is the truth.
We can be deceived if we do not try the spirits, 1 John 4:1 that only comes from prayer and study being guided by the Holy Spirit. Hope this makes sense, we have discussed this before and this is not to debate we both know each other's understanding and I am not asking you but honestly, I have not found or have been shown one verse that out-and-out says we go or are taken to heaven that some teach.
I must disagree, I am not Amillennialism, I do not spiritualize Scripture, I believe in a literal 1000-year reign of Jesus with His chosen and faithful at His second coming, Revelation 5:10 Revelation 20:4-6. Also, I do not believe the Church has replaced Israel. We are probably closer in our understanding of the end times than you think.
Hope you had a good vacation I guess you are on the road again.
God bless,
RLW
Part 3.
How should Christian treat one another?
We are to be at peace with one another, forgive one another, have mercy on one another.
Just a few references.
1 Thessalonians 4:9
Ephesians 4:32
Galatians 5:26
Galatians 6:2
Matthew 7:12
1 John 4:7
However, we don't lie or deceive one another for the sake of peace. The truth hurts sometimes but it promotes spiritual growth providing that the Christ spirit is in the person.
BELEIVERS SHUNNING OTHER BELEIVERS.
To shun is to deliberately avoid something or someone. In the Bible, the word shun is applied to evil. Job 1:8, Job 28:28, Proverbs 3:7-8 Proverbs 14:16. So, shunning evil is good.
There is scripture that promotes excommunication. Matthew 18:15-17; 2 Thessalonians 3:14. but do we do it for harm or Good? What's the intent?
In any case, it would seem that extreme forms of shunning, such as considering someone "dead," utterly ignoring him, or refusing to acknowledge his existence, go beyond what Scripture commands.
After all, Jesus said that, when someone is put out of the church, he should be treated as "a pagan or a tax collector" Matthew 18:17. In other words, treat an intractable offender as an unsaved person.
How are we to treat the unsaved? With love and grace.
The "pagans and tax collectors" need to be evangelized. We are to love even our enemies ( Matthew 5:44).
The goal of excommunication and any form of shunning is restoration ( Galatians 6:1).
The purpose of any type of discipline is to prompt repentance and, ultimately, to reunite our fallen brother or sister with the church body. Being officially ostracized from the church, the sinner might be brought to repentance.
When the man in the Corinthian church later realized that he had sinned against God, he repented and came back to the church for forgiveness and reinstatement. Fellowship with the Corinthian believers was restored ( 2 Corinthians 2:6-11).
Isn't it hateful to ignore or shun other believers?
See part 4.
1 Corinthians 13:10 mentions things passing away when the partial is complete; or something to that affect. Revelation also has verses warning about not adding or subtracting which could mean adding to that book or all scripture. Since the written texts originally came from oratory (with the exception of the 10 Commandments originally penned by God Himself); God planned it out so that the scribes would count every LETTER of a scroll; and get rid of a copy to start again if it was even slightly off. 2 Timothy 3:16 explains that all scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching; reproof; etc.
I have discussed in older posts a summation of the Apocrypha as to truths of historic or moral truths that are borrowed from true scripture; which always states "thus saith the Lord" except for places like Ruth and Esther; or Song of Solomon. God's truths are absolute; as we see from the claims of Christ's divinity; and the laws in the 10 Commandments. The repetitive themes such as scriptures being repeated again in the New Testament to enhance their true meanings bring a cohesiveness to the Bible. We also have such admonitions as 1 John 4:2 stating what any "spirit" testifies about Christ having come in the flesh.
That would correlate with verses like Matthew 16:17 where it is clear that Christ's DIVINITY (as the "I am") can only be understood or revealed through the Spirit. I noticed that myself pre conversion it didn't enter my mind that Christ was God or part of the "Godhead". As our spirit testifies with "his Spirit"( Romans 8:16) that we are His children and His Word is truth the Lord will build our discernment of truth as we grow and mature in Him to know what is true (see also John 10:27).
1 John 4:20 is a stern admonition to those who would claim to love God that hates His brother. Other verses in 1 John show as with the Gospel of John the necessary commands for a believer to love one another. We need to look as well at verses in James which discuss the taming of the tongue. ( James 3:5-6) Gossip and slander are things that can destroy a person; hence the admonition about the fires of hell. You can bet that there will be plenty of cursing in hell for the state of misery against God and probably against others as well. Hating a brother without cause ( Matt. 5:22) is in degrees; but unforgiveness results in holding on to our own sins and is not beneficial for us even in this life. Holding onto grudges; for example is another example of a lifestyle of sin; there are people who may have already passed away who we still have bitterness about in our souls resulting in caustic behavior toward others including unforgiveness. Man cannot have unconditional love for their enemies apart from His grace. This of course doesn't validate the "political correctness" today coddling criminal behavior. Acts 2:23 is only one of several passages in the book clearly stating that the Jews killed Christ; and or complicit in His murder. Jesus didn't mince words either with this subject ( Matthew 5:21-22).
We cannot ignore the act of murder which includes abortions in this study either. Again; we dare not cede to the culture of today which doesn't want to follow Biblical precedent for a death penalty for such an act to vindicate an innocent party and to have some cohesiveness in society. We can complain all we want about dictatorships in the world; but many of them see much lower crime rates because no government can survive in anarchy. We also are foolish in trying to support ideologies that are antithetical toward the value of life because of some misguided notion that everyone wants a "democracy".
Part 5 and last Trinity discussion,
Do you believe that Jesus lived a sinless life?
Scripture is clear Jesus had no sin, Hebrews 4:15 1 Peter 2:22 1 John 3:5 Romans 5:12-15.
Do you believe that the Father and the Son are one as Jesus said in Jn. 17 or that He and the Father are "in" one another and if they see Jesus, they see the Father?
Both, Jesus said I and my Father are one John 10:30 and in other places, one means unity. Jesus was one with the Father not because Jesus was God but because He was filled with the Spirit and God dwelt in him, John 14:10, as we see God was in Christ 2 Corinthians 5:19
God dwelt in Jesus and empowered Him by His Spirit that gave Jesus the power and authority like Matthew 11:27 All things are delivered to Jesus of His Father, Jesus did not have it, all was given to Him. God was manifest in Jesus, John 12:49 John 14:10. This is why Jesus said if you have seen me, you have seen the Father, John 14:9.
Jesus in His prayer asked the Father that we may be one, as He and His Father are one through the words of the disciples, John 17:20-23. God and Jesus will dwell in us and we in them, 1 John 4:13-16 1 John 3:23-24.
How is it that Jesus AND the Father send the Holy Spirit if there is only one person as God?
Jesus said He would pray to the Father to give another comforter, John 14:16, we see in John 14:26 the Father will send in Jesus's name. In John 15:26 Jesus said I will send but this is from the Father and the Spirit of truth that proceedeth from the Father. This is not a person it is the Spirit of God.
Please don't take this wrong, in the Trinity there is one God who eternally exists as three distinct Persons: The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, each Person is fully God, coequal, coeternal, and consubstantial. I'm sorry my understanding, is Scripture does not support that, Scripture is clear the Father is above all.
Thank you, GiGi, I hope this is what you wanted I am not the best at this.
God bless,
RLW
Part 4 Trinity discussion.
Do you believe that the will of the Father and the will of the Son are always the same or different?
Jesus was obedient to the Father, Jesus said many times it is not His will but the will of the Father who sent Him, the same as we are to do, John 4:34 John 5:30 Mark 3:35.
Do you believe that a human being can truly save all men from sin and death by a perfect life in their own will?
First, I will have to say it was the will of the Father, Jesus at the end even asked His father if there was another way but not Jesus's will but the will of His Father, Matthew 26:39 Luke 22:42. We are told this is the foundation of our faith, Jesus' sacrificial death. God cannot die God is Spirit He has no blood to shed for sin it had to be a man, His Son, born of a woman.
John 3:16 God gave His Son not Himself 1 John 2:22 1 John 4:3 2 John 1:7 Romans 5:8 2 Corinthians 5:21, God cannot be made sin, 1 Corinthians 15:17 Jesus died, and God raised Him from the dead, the first man to live a perfect life, the first fruits of those who sleep in death. 1 Corinthians 15:14 as said if Jesus was not a man who lived a perfect life and died and was raised from the dead all is vain.
The first Adam was the first man Jesus was the last Adam and the second man, 1 Corinthians 15:45-47. 1 Corinthians 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. The law had to be fulfilled by a man.
How would a human being know that they are the Messiah from birth and thus know not to ever sin?
As we see Luke 2:51-52 Jesus grew up increasing in wisdom and stature in favor with God and man. Jesus was twelve years old and He knew His father was God, but it doesn't say Jesus knew then He was to be the Messiah. God also said He would raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, Deuteronomy 18:15, Isaiah 11:1-5 Isaiah 61:1-2 confirmed in Luke 4:18-21. Romans 1:1-4 2 Timothy 2:8.
See part 5
I would like to add to what Gigi has shared.
1 John 4:12-16.
No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us. HEREBY KNOW WE THAT WE DWELL IN HIM, AND HE IN US, because he hath given us of his Spirit.
And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
What John is saying is that no man has seen God at any time but if we love one another God dwells in us. In other words God today can manifest himself through believers in loving one another, "and the world sees That!
John 13:34-35, "A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
"What makes this so unique?" What's new about it? Isn't it listed in the Commandments? What's unique and new about it is that he causes it!
Look at verse 35.
"By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
John 3:16
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son,.
( God gave us his Spirit that causes us to love the Brothern.)
God's Spirit, "The Holyspirit" causes those who loves God to love his brother also. 1 John 4:21"
Romans 5:5.
And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
I hope this helps. God bless.
We can do the right thing with the wrong heart and we fall short of perfection.
TO BE PERFECT YOU WOULD HAVE TO BE BLAMELESS.
1 Corinthians 8:9-12 is another scenario to consider.
We often think of the things we do wrong as sin.
What about the things we don't do right or good? Consider James 4:17.
Here's our goal.
Galatians 5:25-26
If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
Let's see if we are perfect in this using Galatians 5:24 "And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."
Here's a list of the works of the flesh in Galatians 5:19-21.
( Most of these we can claim on the surface but God judges the heart.)
Are we PERFECTLY blameless in not doing any of these in our hearts?
THOSE ARE A LIST OF THINGS A CHRISTIAN SHOULDN'T BE DOING. ( If we are doing these we are sinning.)
Christians are known "BY" there Love for one another and should be barring fruit.
John 13:34-35.
1 John 4:20-21.
Matthew 7:15-16.
Let's use Galatians 5:22-23 to see what we should be doing. "PERFECTLY since our focus is on the ability to be perfect in these natural bodies.
love,
joy,
peace,
longsuffering,
gentleness,
goodness,
faith,
Meekness,
temperance.
IF YOU ARE NOT DOING THESE PERFECTLY "FOREVER ON! YOU ARE NOT PERFECT OR BLAMELESS.
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin. James 4:17.
God bless.
Then to your question, "If Jesus was a co-equal God in the three-person God, how could He be given anything He would already have it?" If we don't believe that Jesus came out from God's Person, then your question is valid. But if He did, then to become Man, taking on 'sinful flesh', He would have had to lay aside God's Glory & other Divine Attributes ( Philippians 2:5-8), so that He could be fully Man, to identify completely with those He would save & be their sin-bearer - for God in His Being cannot suffer & die as appointed unto men.
Thus when we read 1 John 4:2,3; we know that John is not speaking of an historical Jesus, for all knew of (or heard of) this One named Jesus of Nazareth Who lived & walked on Earth doing great things. But those who denied that this Christ from God had been brought down to Earth to be made flesh, were deemed by the apostle as not speaking by God's Spirit (& this is that Docetic heresy that was pervading the Church: that Divinity & Flesh cannot unite, so the incarnation is incredible). So dear brother, I can see your interpretation of such verses & was exercised by them to understand them the way you do, but for me to read them in that manner would cause me to violate my comprehension abilities & sensibilities.
Therefore, I think it best we leave off here, as much as I would like to continue, for I see no useful progress to be made when we read the Word so differently. Thank you again for your time & persisting in this - I do appreciate this very much. Every blessing.
This Docetic position stems from a belief that 'Deity cannot unite with flesh', but it doesn't mean that Scriptures aren't used to prove their belief, but with that foundation, their mental capabilities are engaged to re-visit Scriptures with alternative viewpoints. But there would be those who have from young age been taught that the incarnation is impossible (as you would know how RCs are indoctrinated from an early age in other matters, viz. Mary, saints, indulgences, penances, the Mass, etc.); or others by their own research from books, the Web, etc., where they can find a 'better' logic to this mystery, than just accepting what the Word states.
Thus we have the apostolic epistles, which essentially are pastoral letters directed to Churches for teaching, encouragement, dealing with problems/matters arising, & refuting the teaching of others that were contrary to what they had been taught. I always go back to 1 John in this 'docetic' regard, as Gnosticsm was rife then & John had to deal with it (see 1 John 1:1,2; 1 John 2:18 (the anti-Christ spirit, cf 1 John 4:2,3); 1 John 2:22,23). GBU.
Good to hear from you, very good question. First, the Roman Church elevated Mary to the queen of heaven the same title as Tammuz's mother we see Israel worshiping. They say she ascended to heaven and much more. If we look at Acts we see Paul said that David is still in his tomb and has not ascended to heaven, Acts 2:29 and Acts 2:34. Many believe after Jesus was resurrected saints were also resurrected and are in heaven and many pray to them. My understanding is no one has been resurrected all are in the grave asleep in death.
When God through His Spirit the Holy Spirit raised Jesus from the dead He placed Jesus above all that is in heaven, on earth, and under the earth, Philippians 2:9-11. God placed Jesus on His right hand on the throne of God, therefore giving Jesus the power of the throne.
John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. Jesus also said John 16:23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.
God the Father and Jesus will dwell in us by the Spirit, not in temples made by hands like Jesus said in John 4:21-23 and we see in 1 Corinthians 3:16. We see in 1 John 4:12-16 it is by the Spirit that Jesus who is sitting on the right side of God on the throne of God as the only mediator between us and God has been given the power of the throne until all enemies are under His feet, 1 Corinthians 15:27-28.
My humble understanding it is by the Spirit of God/Holy Spirit that Jesus can see and hear all. Jesus is the only begotten Son of God and His God is our God the Father as Jesus said to Mary John 20:17.
God bless,
RLW
The Spirit uses the word continual in keeping with the Holiness in which both Power and Wisdom are at play. He sent forth his word that shall never return void. (Is.55:11) So continual is firmly is the order of the Father Son relationship. "My Father worketh hitherto, and I work," has events unseen as well as made to appear that owe to this continual action.
Consequently the Abstract presented in the Book of Genesis Ch. 1 refers to the Everlasting Covenant, which is unseen. Whereas the Abstract like 7 bullet points- and the Spirit calls them as day, refers to the generation of Jesus Christ. Why call it day? In Ps.2:7 God refers it as such, and "This day I have begotten thee," is part of the decree so it stands. The generation of Jesus Christ begins with the day as set down by the Spirit. "These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens."(Ge.2:4)
"In the beginning" refers to this day (Ge.1:1). Compare this with the verse where new heaven and the new earth are presented (Re.21:1), the adjective 'new' is the culmination of the continual action to which both heaven and the earth play their parts set forth in the Abstract.
The Spirit uses the word 'continual' in another sense. The devil sins from the beginning, which also have consequences till the day of Regeneration. 'He that is in you is greater than he that is in the world.'( 1 John 4:4,18) His works are however subject to God purging from time to time. ( 1 John 3:8). Perfect love casts out fear.
Of course Franklin Roosevelt gave the quote "the only thing we have to fear is fear itself." That is true to some extent; because the enemy of our souls can only do what God allows; but of course the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom; which is found in numerous scriptural passages as well. It has been said that the opposite of fear is faith; and of course true love casts out fear ( 1 John 4:18). This is something only the Lord can give; for Jesus Himself had martyrdom to face daily; and Revelation 2:10 is one example given for the church; as well as the verse where Christ said to not fear what can be done to the body but the one who can cast body and soul into hell. ( Matthew 10:28). The enemy also likes to remind us as the accuser of the brethern of our sins and our condemnation which Christ took at the cross for true believers. (see Revelation 12:10). The Lord will convict us when we grieve the Spirit but that is out of love. The power of sin is death ( 1 Cor. 15:56). Jesus overcame death and the grave and took our sins on Himself at Calvary. We need to be daily reminded of these basic Gospel truths as we can become hardened to it for various reasons.
There is hope for us after death and hope is for things yet unseen ( Hebrews 11:1). Surely with the world in the state it is today we need that future expectation for any joy to be maintained; whether emotionally or as a fruit of the Spirit. Being part of the BODY of Christ is imperitive as to our identity so that we may together strive for unity in fulfilling the Great Commission and prayer and fellowship with one another for strength.
A question we should ask ourselves; Do we study it with a confirmation bias? I know I have in the past and I must fight it every time I open the Bible. It is part of our subconscious mind; confirmation bias is when we study the Bible, we look for verses to confirm our existing beliefs, without even knowing it we ignore any Bible verses that conflict with what we believe.
Our existing beliefs are deeply entrenched in our subconscious mind, and our subconscious mind blocks the true meaning unless we accept that we may be wrong and in prayer make a sincere effort to come to the Scriptures with an open mind as we know nothing, praying for the truth with open ears, that we may hear.
Like stories we have heard from childhood, only two, a male and a female of each animal and bird went into the ark with Noah, or the wise men went to the manger when Jesus was a baby. Is that the truth? We must not automatically defend our beliefs without ever really questioning them, if not, the truth becomes harder to find.
1 John 4:1, we are told to test the spirits and many other Scriptures tell us to be aware of false prophets, and false teachers, 2 Corinthians 11:13-15. It is easy to start with a doctrine, or something we have been taught, or what we believe to find Scripture that will confirm it, but is that the true meaning that God inspired the writer to write?
I read and study the KJV, but we must be honest it is a translation and if something feels wrong in our heart, we must not ignore it. Whatever version we have we must trust it is the word of God and His Spirit will give us the understanding of it and shine light on the truth, not from our mind.
We can study in two ways, exegesis, considering the context, and God's intent, and open to the truth given to us through the Holy Spirit, or eisegesis by reading into it with one's own presuppositions, ideas, or the traditions of man.
Just a thought for the new year. Love you guys.
God bless,
RLW
I had an interesting discussion with a friend of mine who is a young Pastor last week. In it; he was lamenting an individual who claimed that Christ died for him (or her). This was because the evidence of it through this person's behavior would indicate otherwise. It is indeed true and necessary that we all have a personal understanding and experience in regard to salvific faith and repentance granted in regard to being one of God's elect if indeed we are saved. Clearly "accepting" Christ as Lord isn't really doing anything beyond what demons do and shudder ( James 2:19). Confession with the mouth and belief in the heart must coexist ( Romans 10:9-10); it is more than just a verbal declaration of facts. Nonetheless there should be some understanding of the atonement; as well as evidence that the heart has been changed with the spirit convicting of sin; righteousness and judgment to come ( John 16:8). As the Lord states "out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh" ( Matt. 12:34 and other related verses in New and Old Testament). What John 3:16 is indicating is a state of belief; not merely a one time thing (as translated correctly). Enduring to the end shows that it isn't our own strength which brings about this result; since we all struggle with sin as long as we live ( 1 John 1:8). Nonetheless we have the capacity to live a life of Holiness; since greater is He within us than he who is in the world ( 1 John 4:4).
There are variations of strengths and weaknesses that we all have; some are steeped in doctrines but rather cold in affection towards God; others seem to be caught up in experiences at the expense of wisdom from the Word; and often they seem to have little grasp of repentance or deem it not worthy in very much discussion. There is ample substance in the Word for the Spirit to enlighten us; and any personal vision or dream must be subject to the Word; if in variance then it must be discarded.
MORE TO COME
Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old.
The twelve disciples by the Power of the Spirit were equipped so their tongue was as that of learned. Jesus had assured them, "For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you." (10:20). Isaiah says, "The Lord GOD hath given me the tongue of the learned, that I should know how to speak a word in season tohim that isweary: he wakeneth morning by morning, he wakeneth mine ear to hear as the learned."(Is.50:4) They were his associates brought into the household of God.
Their names were written in heaven before the worlds began; so are the names of all those who were adopted as co-heirs to which the writer to the Hebrews address thus "But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,/To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect"(He.12:22-23)
"which bringeth out of his treasure"
Heart of every scribe is the treasure awaiting him and connects his physical life to the very presence of God. It is hidden, and the route map is the Scripture. "Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path (Ps.119:105). It is for this reason the Spirit has in many places compared the word of God to a lamp without which he cannot get his bearings or know what he is getting at. On the way he shall find many who make claim to know all the answers and do great wonders. It is impressive because the spirit that helps them is from some other source. How shall you know? "Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.( 1 John 4:4)".
I know a lot of people believe their loved ones are watching them from heaven, even Christians. I have always wondered if they have ever thought that through to a conclusion. Why God would allow such a thing when heaven is a place of peace and joy, why let people look down on this cursed world after they have gone to be with Him and are in His wonderful Prescence. I suppose they think their loved ones would want to do that but that doesn't make any sense either. Do they think Jesus isn't enough for the ones they've left behind to be there for them? Do they think the loved one is actually able to touch them with a sense of comfort somehow and to desire that instead looking to Jesus for their comfort? To look to someone else, a dead person instead of Jesus, for help from above is idolatry. Even worldly people believe this, like their deceased loved ones automatically went to heaven and since religious people accept it they do too. I hope this has been a little bit of help to you and, again I will be in prayer for you and her. :) God Bless
A case in point, that I've shared here before: when ministering in Pakistan back in the late 80's, I was giving a Bible study to a small Church group & 1 John 4:10, "Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins" was one of many references that was given. I had to use a Urdu translator (a brother in Christ) for this study, since my Urdu proficiency is woefully inadequate, & I had checked with him on some of our more 'difficult' biblical English words, e.g. 'propitiation'. He told me that in Urdu it is 'kafara' which in English is 'atonement'. But when I asked if 'kafara' could mean anything else to him (as we understand it in English), he replied, 'no other meaning at all'; they had no word in Urdu for 'propitiation', which meant that the translators made no effort to maybe give the proper meaning as a footnote, for example.
So Christians in Pakistan & parts of N. India actually miss out on receiving the full Truth & value of verses such as 1 John 4:10, thinking that the Gift of God's Son had atonement as its only message - they had no idea, because of a bad translation, that Jesus not only died for mankind's sins, but that He also bore the Wrath of God upon Himself that was actually destined for us. That by believing on Jesus, both our sins have been forgiven & God's Anger has been averted. Now not only lacking in Urdu, but I wonder how many other foreign language translations are denying Christians the full & accurate Words of God given for them.
Part 2.
You gave your understanding that in Hebrews 2:17-18 Hebrews 14:2 1 John 4:2-3 to mean that Jesus was a living soul like you and me except He was anointed without measure with the Spirit of God?
Ronald, I don't hold the view that Jesus was a living soul.
Jesus wasn't born of Adam. He was of the seed of the woman! (That is very different and have meaning of specially done! Something I want have time to get into at the moment. Perhaps others would.
You mentioned Hebrews 2:17-18, Hebrews 2:14 and 1 John 4:2-3. Those scriptures say the Jesus came in the flesh.
Yes, he did!
1 Timothy 3:16 tells us who came in the flesh and where he returned.
"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
He came to condemn sin in the flesh as our Kinsman redeemer, something only he could do, "being of the seed of the woman" and not of Adam.
These are my beliefs Ronald.
I will speak on the kinsman Redeemer when time permits.
God bless.
If I may ask, not to debate but just for my study and better understanding, Your reply to GiGi, It had to be the last Adam; A life-giving Spirit!! Not a living soul. This comes from 1 Corinthians 15, "the last Adam was made a quickening spirit". Forgive me if I misunderstood what you said (not a living soul).
I understand Jesus was made a quickening spirit when He was resurrected. What do you mean by not a living soul? My understanding is that in Hebrews 2:17-18 Hebrews 14:2 1 John 4:2-3 would that not mean Jesus was a living soul like you and me except He was anointed without measure with the Spirit of God?
Thanks, brother,
God bless,
RLW
"But the importance is that everybody must settle it in their own hearts and minds about who Jesus is." So true. This has been discussed I think most know my understanding on this.
Was He just a great man? 1 Timothy 2:5 Numbers 23:19 1 Hosea 11:19 Corinthians 15:21-22 Was He just a great teacher? John 3:2 Was He a great healer? Luke 4:18-19 Was He a prophet? Deuteronomy 18:18 Was He the brother of Satan? No, He is the only begotten Son, John 3:16 1 John 4:14. Was He Michael the archangel? No, Hebrews 1:5. Or was He God in the flesh? 1 Timothy 3:16 manifest, (make clear, make known) John 5:19. Did Peter give the right answer? Yes.
This doctrine was developed almost 400 years after Jesus's crucifixion, today in Christianity salvation is dependent on the belief in the Trinity doctrine. If that is true. Why is it not taught anywhere in the New Testament?
If Jesus is God why would God have to anoint Him with His Spirit? Did Jesus do the works and the miracles or did God the Father by His Spirit/Holy Spirit? Is salvation at the mercy of the belief in the Trinity doctrine? Did Jesus say the Father was His God? Could God fulfill the law that was made for man? Did God give Himself or His Son that we would not perish? If we say Jesus is God, do we deny the Son?
Jesus said this, John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Acts 4:12 God bless,
RLW
I understand in delays in replies many work and have family responsibilities. This subject is being discussed by several people and I just wanted to share a few points of my understanding on it. The questions were not directed towards you, you can reply to them if you want but they were some of the questions I wrote down when I was studying this subject because some Scriptures seem to support both understandings if not deeply studied, not saying you have not.
Scripture tells us God is love, 1 John 4:8,16 and we have been told God does not have pleasure in the death of the wicked, Ezekiel 33:11 caries us to John 3:16 God does not want us to perish. The Bible tells us the soul that sinneth will die, Ezekiel 18:4 God preserves the souls of the saints Psalms 97:10 the faith and belief in Jesus by the grace of God can save our soul Hebrews 10:39.
Scripture tells us of various degrees of punishment like in Luke 12:46-48 Revelation 21:8. In Genesis 2:7 man became a living soul/being, my understanding is the breath of God is the spirit of life which goes back to God when we die whether lost or saved and this body becomes a dead soul that sleeps in the dust until resurrection then the judgment Revelation 20.
To repeat, eternal life is our promise it is something we do not have, only by faith and belief in Jesus Christ by the grace of God we will receive this gift when we are resurrected not before. If we say our souls are immortal, we are saying we already have eternal life, and it is just where are we going to spend it?
My understanding is the lost and wicked punishment is eternal forever, not the punishing, Satan and the fallen angels the beast and false profit will be tormented day and night for ever and ever as we see in Revelation 20:10, but they are not mortal beings like we are, and we see in Matthew 25:41 it was originally prepared for them.
Just my understanding of Scripture thanks again.
God bless,
RLW
Part 4.
We use Brothern to loosely today. Everyone amongst us is not a Brother or a Sister!
Look at the example Jesus gives in Matthew 12:47-50.
"Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren.
For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
Romans 12:3 says not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
We all have flaws and we're all of one body ministering by the same Spirit, having gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us by "THE GIFT" (Christ Spirit.) We are to exercise those gifts by the power of Christ Spirit.
We are to Love one another; I've declared that on this site since I've been on it using John 13:34-35 as a springboard.
Also, 1 John 4:20-21 and Matthew 7:15-16.
We shall be known by our fruit, not our gifts!
CAN YOU GENERATE THIS ON YOUR OWN?
Love amongst the brothern is not partial.
It's not determined by race, wealth, political parties, Gender, status in the church, or one's eschatology.
Love at its highest level is Agape. It's caused by the Holyspirit that knits us as one. It's to be totally given over to.
I've seen where one says he have the gift of discernment but yet he shuns other Brothern.
If you have an issue with a brother, you restore him. Galatians 6:1-4.
We must look out for each other. James 5:20 says, "Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins." Confrontation may be difficult, but it is not loving to allow a professing Christian to continue in a sin that will bring God's consequences upon him.
See Part 5.
Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.
I believe the scripture will open gates and doors for me.
Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.
One of my favorite verses (I would call it my "life verse") is 1 John 4:10
"Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us, and sent His Son as a propitiation for our sins."
In fact, this whole section in 1 John 4:7-21is very near and dear to my heart.
As to 1 John 4:18
This statement about perfect love casting out fear follows Johns exposition on the amazing love of God for us manifested in sending His Son to suffer and die for our sins to set us free from the condemnation our sin deserves. And we can know that we have life in Jesus because of what He did for us. In verse 15 John speaks as Jesus did in the Luke passage, that any who confesses Jesus is the Son of God (which the Jewish leaders determined was blasphemy; that Jesus made Himself out to be God when He claimed to be the Son of God- Jn. 10:33) will be indwelt by the God and the person dwells in God. vs. 16.
verse 17 says that we can have boldness on the day of judgement. This is where our love is made perfect and we will have no fear of condemnation at that judgement. vs.18. Those who will fear at the judgement will be those who do not confess Jesus, who are in unbelief and do not have the indwelling of God nor do they abide in God, as believers do prior to the judgement.
On judgment day we will have boldness instead of fear like the unbelievers because the love of God has been shed abroad in our hearts through God's work of salvation, forgiveness of sins, and the imputed righteousness of Christ. We can stand before God on judgment day knowing we will enter into blessed eternity in the Presence of God without any fear or sense of disapproval from God. We will stand without blame because Jesus stood for us in our place to enable us to become sons of God, vessels of His mercy, not vessels of His wrath, as the unbelievers are.
So I think that both of these selections from Luke and 1 John are speaking about judgment day and how we who confess Jesus, even under threat of death by persecutors, will receive the crown of life, and victory, and acceptance by God who did not have to save us but chose to do so in the manifestation of His love for us in Christ.
I am interested in reading what others think on your concerns on this matter.